Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Drawing, design and composition...the foundation of good work.

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Ford » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:25 pm

Nice one Jack, :clap: :clap: I agree with every word. In fact I might almost suspect the author plagiarised my own writings. :smartass:

I'll add it here too, just in case the link breaks sometime in the future.

Excerpt below is taken from :
"Traditional Oil Painting ̶Advanced Techniques and Concepts from the Renaissance to the Present"
by Virgil Elliott
Watson-Guptill - 1st edition - August 7, 2007

In regards to Style...
"Perhaps too much has been made of the need for originality and individual style in educational institutions offering art classes. In the early stages of an artist's development, it is more important to concentrate on mastering the skills that will be needed to facilitate self-expression. There is no real
danger of an inspired individual with a strong personality losing any of his or her distinctiveness due to thorough training in the technical aspects of art-making. All too often, focusing too much on style and too little on skills results in a set of handicaps that place a low limit on what a person can effectively express through art. These handicaps are sometimes equated as if they were elements of a person's style, but that view is harmful and should not be encouraged.

It is indeed true that each artist's style is, and should be, unique; however, this idea is often used as an excuse for whatever is lacking in a given artist's technique. Style should be the result of choice, not of limitation. It should not be a concern at all for the student, whose primary goal must be to
master every aspect of drawing and painting exactly what he or she sees, until it is all second nature. At that point, it might be appropriate to give consideration to what one's style is to be as a professional, but not until the lessons have been learned and learned well. With a full range of choice available, any choice one makes is valid.

Style will evolve naturally. As in Zen, the direct pursuit of this goal is pointless. It will happen when it is Time. Its Time will not be until all obstacles of perception and all limitation of technical ability have been removed. Then it will be there, as it is always there in each of us, awaiting the
development of our ability to recognize and express it. Until we have mastered every aspect of our medium, there will be things inside us that cannot be expressed. These things are elements of each artist's individual style."
"The artist yields often to the stimuli of materials that will transmit his spirit." Odilon Redon
my website
User avatar
Ford
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 4855
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:30 am
Location: Torquay, 'The English Riviera', Devon, England.
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Roman U » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:04 pm

Thank you, this article answered some of my questions.
Roman U
 

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Phil White » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:23 pm

Fantastic!

I will have to save that for future reference. Too bad more people, especially those teaching at art schools didn't see things that way.

I have been thinking a lot about this subject lately, as I am working on a new personal piece that was inspired by an 18th century Japanese book on wood carving designs.

Ford, your recent utushi reference would fit in well here too.
User avatar
Phil White
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 650
Images: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Dan OC » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:25 pm

Style will evolve naturally. As in Zen, the direct pursuit of this goal is pointless. It will happen when it is Time. Its Time will not be until all obstacles of perception and all limitation of technical ability have been removed. Then it will be there, as it is always there in each of us, awaiting the
development of our ability to recognize and express it. Until we have mastered every aspect of our medium, there will be things inside us that cannot be expressed. These things are elements of each artist's individual style."


This fits me to a T. In the 80's when I made swords I made Japanese sword like objects. I was mostly self taught and could not "see" what I needed to see. Let alone the technical skills and sensitivity to produce it even if I could see it.It has taken 30 years of living and learning for it to be "Time".

Mr. Ishii who practiced Kendo into his late 70's and Iaido into his 80's would often ask me after practice "What did you see today?" After several years of this, one day I responded. : the Kissaki of John's Shinai follows his breathing, Breathe in tip up, Breathe out tip down-ever so slightly." "It is a start" he said.

This is my most favorite Fuchi/Kashira that I have seen-Made by Ford of course.

simple higo ford.JPG

I see so much going on here that any carving or inlay would be a distraction.

It is a start. ;)
User avatar
Dan OC
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:36 pm
Location: North texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Ford » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:36 pm

Thanks Phil, I'll that bit to the thread for future reference :biggrin:

Dan, much appreciated :cloud9: It takes a while to trust that 'that' is enough. It's a start, I trust so ;)
"The artist yields often to the stimuli of materials that will transmit his spirit." Odilon Redon
my website
User avatar
Ford
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 4855
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:30 am
Location: Torquay, 'The English Riviera', Devon, England.
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Albert R » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:59 am

Wow everyone!

This is my most favorite Fuchi/Kashira that I have seen-Made by Ford of course.
I see so much going on here that any carving or inlay would be a distraction.

Yes, Yes! Very deep and contemplative statement and images.
I wonder, how many people with the potential for great work, are lost to the daily grind?
I have to think deeply on this and ask, "What potential does my wife, or my sons have, and what do I do now to help them fulfill that?"
I'm a soldier at heart, duty to others is my bread and butter.

This forum is as much a philosopher's forum as it is an artists' and smith's.

Much to contemplate, ruminate, and digest today.

Albert
User avatar
Albert R
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:12 am
Location: West Central Florida
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Ford » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:32 am

This is the little piece on the meaning of 'utsushi' that Phil referred to;

"The Japanese term, Utsushi (写?) can be translated as, appropriation, emulation, inspiration, attribution, etc. However, the word Utsushi encompasses the meanings found in all the terms mentioned. An Utsushi can be a work where an artist is inspired by a traditional motif and incorporates the design in a work of art or the artist is emulating a masterpiece of the past to surpass the original subtly.
In Japan today, the meaning found in the term Utsushi is slowly fading and being misinterpreted or wrongly associated with the term, mozo (模造?) which means to copy or reproduce. Utsushi is simply not copying or reproducing a masterpiece or motif from the past. Instead, Utsushi promotes a dialogue between the artist and the masters of the past, connecting past, present, and future."


and Albert,

I hesitate to recommend it to a professional soldier and I did read read it many years ago myself but you may find 'In Search of the Warrior Spirit' by Richard Strozzi Heckler to be a worthwhile read. I say this in response to your obvious philosophical bent :biggrin:
"The artist yields often to the stimuli of materials that will transmit his spirit." Odilon Redon
my website
User avatar
Ford
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 4855
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:30 am
Location: Torquay, 'The English Riviera', Devon, England.
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Albert R » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:13 pm

Thank you sir.
That is very gracious of you to suggest. I appreciate it.

On my to-do list for this evening.
I've spent the day in study and thought. The Tsuba Project #1 post and the comments throughout have caused me to ask even more questions and ponder their answers. It should be required reading for all persons.


Good stuff everyone, good stuff.

Best regards,
Albert A Rasch
User avatar
Albert R
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:12 am
Location: West Central Florida
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Brian A » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:56 pm

This thread has helped me over the last few months. Because I am "self teaching" art I have used this forum and it's members to guide my learning.

My example is forging knife blades. If I copy a patten I can forge a decent copy. If I try to forge the same knife with only my brain ad a reference I forge a much poorer blade.
Aa I gain experience I see lines and curves that never appealed to my senses but were there all along.

As a knew knifemaker, I've bought Japanese art, Tosogu, and knives from people I wish to emulate to see how they are constructed. To feel the flow of a knife in my hand. To see a properly shaped Nakago Ana etc.

I saw this quote on a member here's signature line. It was me for the longest time.
Too much forum time and not enough shop time.

'The supreme misfortune is when theory outstrips performance'
Leonardo da Vinci

For me. I am getting a steady dose of copying work lately. It's been very satisfying and mentally keeps me sharp figuring out how someone's made something and re-producing it.
User avatar
Brian A
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:59 am
Location: Beaverton Oregon
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Chris from Germany » Mon May 30, 2016 11:06 am

Hey i hope it´s ok to give this old Threat new life.
For me as autodidakt copying work is nessesary to get skills with no master or advice.
But it´s a path with two ways. One way are the drawing skills the other is Technique. I try to get the Things in my head on paper and compare it with the work from others.
That was a big lesson in engraving i got. Technique is Technique but the imagination beginns with flow and natural courves. Every Piece needs it´s own magic. I try too feel more than think about the designs.
If something feels bad the flow is broken.
I do a lot copys for my own and melt it for the next piece. I think thats one of the best expieriences for an artist. Too create something with mutch time and energy and than destroy it. If you cant keep it some time and destroy it. I know it sounds crazy but for me it´s the best way to feel free about working time and all the stuff thats in my head. The moore i do it the moore i feel free in working on a piece. Doesent matter if its a copy or my own design.
Sure I don´t destroy everything but sometimes it´s very nice to set all the energy free.
I think copying will let us learn a lot about the feelings of the maker of the piece. Shadows at example I try to feel the sun thats shining on the higher spots. And think about why the maker placed what kind of shadow there. Sometimes I dream about it. It´s very funny to be a chissel in your dream. I had it a few times when i was imaginating about designs in engraving short bevore sleeping.
I´m not very good now but I think the only possible way to compare my work is to compare with better work.
So maybe it´s sometimes frustrating to see how bad your work is in comparing with others but I think it´s the way to get better
have a nice day
Chris
User avatar
Chris from Germany
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 9
Images: 3
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 7:54 am
Location: Meppen Germany
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Your first attempts...original design or copy work?

Postby Albert R » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:37 am

It's been four and a half years since I wrote the last comment on this thread. It seems a forgotten lifetime ago... This thread should be required reading for all students on the forum.

Thank you Ford, for making this space, this continuum, available to us. I am finding many of life's truths buried between these digital pages.

Albert
User avatar
Albert R
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:12 am
Location: West Central Florida
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Previous

Return to The Drawing Studio

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest